Cabaret is the rare Best Picture winner that I think has not only stood the test of time but managed to remain somehow underrated (and yes! I know it was up against The Godfather!!!! I watched every episode of The Offer, you can’t tell me shit!). Fosse has such an innate sense of film as a medium, and particularly how to queasily thread the needle between naked entertainment and subversion. Impossible not to be seduced into just “enjoying Liza doing her thing” regardless of whatever else is happening. Liza’s kooky-attractive charisma (“you’re about as fatale as an after dinner mint!”) adds a level of wholesome plausible deniability that really veils the obvious rot within Sally.
I think the film version, in making Sally actually talented (albeit still just scraping by) instead of a mediocrity, ends up being more of an indictment of artistic complicity with fascism—isn’t the naive hope always that extraordinary people will use their gifts for something beyond self-advancement, given that they are in a unique position to do exactly that? Haha, no.
IA re: Sally's actual talent and I think one of Fosse's great instincts as a director is to slightly reshape the narrative around her undeniable talent rather than having her fall out of and back into the Kit Kat - she's as much as part of that place as all of those who come to it, your audience is what you build! (same goes for Fran Mag but in a normal way...)
I often think of Michelle Williams as Gwen Verdon saying "doesn't that sound like a hit!"
I am also a Fosse Head, and I go back and forth on whether I think Cabaret or All That Jazz is his best film--I think the former is, like, one of The Perfect Movies, but the latter has the autobiographical thing that I think I ultimately value most. Anyway, I would love a Convo Part Two after you both rewatch
Loved it! Shot-up into my faves-of-all-time-list within MINUTES of viewing! The dvd copy I was watching from the library had some bizarre motion-smoothing going on, though? I mean… If anything, this added to the unsettling vibes already present. So I guess I can’t… entirely complain?
if that feels fitting for any movie, it's one as odd as that one for sure... the blu ray is gorgeous should you wind up wanting to add to your collection! it's crazy how instantly iconic the film is... from like... minute 3!!!
Absolutely. That opening scene just breaks down the damn door, throwing around those rapid-cuts and close-ups of eerie debauchery! I’m watching that like “Make yourself at home, Cabaret! Dinner’s in the fridge!!”😆 (btw, Thanks for the physical-media rec, Fran.)
not once but TWICE in my youth (once in middle school, once studying abroad) I thought I was alone in a domicile and was belting "hey big spender" and then later learned I had not been alone and that some adult had HEARD ME, and it was very embarrassing but that just proves, I think, the innate power of mister bob fosse
Ok wow this showed up on my notes page but I’ve literally never heard anyone mention any of the Gormenghast trilogy ever but it’s one of my favorite things!! I discovered it several years ago totally randomly. It’s so crazy, funny, and original!! New subscriber here 😁
More like Titus GREAT! I got my copy of the Gormenghast novels last Christmas and have yet to really crack them. I will take partial credit for making this happen, unless it goes poorly, in which case I will take all of the credit. Can’t wait!
tell your roommate i watch the mendes tape in parts on youtube on my phone once a year and then ask him what he thought of maude apatow as sally bowles
Maude Apatow as Sally Bowles feels like it could be inspired casting in the sense that neither Maude, nor Sally "have it", and therefore must get theirs through nepotism or being in Weimar Berlin, which was what you'd do if you sucked to bad to work Paris. Could be a real Casper Van Dien in Starship Troopers type thing.
I'm not Phil but I was saying this morning that Gaga would be a good Sally Bowles but then I realized Joker 2 is unintentionally aping the "scary clown aesthetic" of this new Cabaret
i think maestro cabaret (mendes version the movie) can and should still be made with bradley as emcee and stefani as sally even if she is 45 and he is 55. it's my two cents.
my like dream casting for sally is saoirse, perhaps opposite one or several of the pale boys i love. i don't hate the idea of stefani as sally but i just wanted to chime in...
I think he could do it, if only because I know he'd read like ten thousand pages worth of books and research on Weimar Germany, which I think is essential to this text. I'm in an argument on reddit rn (embarrassing) about the new version, where a lot of people seem to think Weimar Berlin was a cool, queer, progressive place to be prior to the Nazis taking power, which is... JBOL, read a book!
Do we think Cooper is casting himself as the MC? And do we think that will work?
To your point, I will say that seeing the rival, wealthier middle school put on Oklahoma! when I was in eighth grade did lead to several crushes that did not end well for me...
Cabaret is the rare Best Picture winner that I think has not only stood the test of time but managed to remain somehow underrated (and yes! I know it was up against The Godfather!!!! I watched every episode of The Offer, you can’t tell me shit!). Fosse has such an innate sense of film as a medium, and particularly how to queasily thread the needle between naked entertainment and subversion. Impossible not to be seduced into just “enjoying Liza doing her thing” regardless of whatever else is happening. Liza’s kooky-attractive charisma (“you’re about as fatale as an after dinner mint!”) adds a level of wholesome plausible deniability that really veils the obvious rot within Sally.
I think the film version, in making Sally actually talented (albeit still just scraping by) instead of a mediocrity, ends up being more of an indictment of artistic complicity with fascism—isn’t the naive hope always that extraordinary people will use their gifts for something beyond self-advancement, given that they are in a unique position to do exactly that? Haha, no.
IA re: Sally's actual talent and I think one of Fosse's great instincts as a director is to slightly reshape the narrative around her undeniable talent rather than having her fall out of and back into the Kit Kat - she's as much as part of that place as all of those who come to it, your audience is what you build! (same goes for Fran Mag but in a normal way...)
I hadn't realize til watching Joel Grey Oscar clip that he beat all the Godfather boys... kinda nuts! But deserved!
They’re all winners…to me…
I often think of Michelle Williams as Gwen Verdon saying "doesn't that sound like a hit!"
I am also a Fosse Head, and I go back and forth on whether I think Cabaret or All That Jazz is his best film--I think the former is, like, one of The Perfect Movies, but the latter has the autobiographical thing that I think I ultimately value most. Anyway, I would love a Convo Part Two after you both rewatch
noted...!
I forgot to mention the great Michelle Williams Gwen Verdon gif... here it is for everyone: https://yeahiwasintheshit.tumblr.com/post/187990458285/michelle-williams-deserved-the-emmy-for-being-this
This is nuts— I just so happened to see “Cabaret” for the first time ever LAST NIGHT. WHAT TIMING!!! 😱😱
omg!! how did you like it
Loved it! Shot-up into my faves-of-all-time-list within MINUTES of viewing! The dvd copy I was watching from the library had some bizarre motion-smoothing going on, though? I mean… If anything, this added to the unsettling vibes already present. So I guess I can’t… entirely complain?
if that feels fitting for any movie, it's one as odd as that one for sure... the blu ray is gorgeous should you wind up wanting to add to your collection! it's crazy how instantly iconic the film is... from like... minute 3!!!
Absolutely. That opening scene just breaks down the damn door, throwing around those rapid-cuts and close-ups of eerie debauchery! I’m watching that like “Make yourself at home, Cabaret! Dinner’s in the fridge!!”😆 (btw, Thanks for the physical-media rec, Fran.)
not once but TWICE in my youth (once in middle school, once studying abroad) I thought I was alone in a domicile and was belting "hey big spender" and then later learned I had not been alone and that some adult had HEARD ME, and it was very embarrassing but that just proves, I think, the innate power of mister bob fosse
that rocks... very that scene in Talented Mr. Ripley when Matt Damon is wearing Jude Law's clothes and singing jazz
how does redmayne’s emcee compare to his balem abrasax
it is the same thing ideologically for sure
definitely shades of balam in there
Oooohh That performance is the redmayne-strain that we actually DO need more of in this world.
FOSSE FEVER 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Ok wow this showed up on my notes page but I’ve literally never heard anyone mention any of the Gormenghast trilogy ever but it’s one of my favorite things!! I discovered it several years ago totally randomly. It’s so crazy, funny, and original!! New subscriber here 😁
omg yay!!! I can't wait!! please come reread with us in May!!
More like Titus GREAT! I got my copy of the Gormenghast novels last Christmas and have yet to really crack them. I will take partial credit for making this happen, unless it goes poorly, in which case I will take all of the credit. Can’t wait!
as one of Middlemarch May's key commenters and Eliot intellectuals, your vote had great sway over the eventual pick!!! it's gonna go GREAT!
“It’s Fosse Fever, Not Fosse Fancy!” - need it printed on a shirt and/or bumper sticker
tell your roommate i watch the mendes tape in parts on youtube on my phone once a year and then ask him what he thought of maude apatow as sally bowles
Maude Apatow as Sally Bowles feels like it could be inspired casting in the sense that neither Maude, nor Sally "have it", and therefore must get theirs through nepotism or being in Weimar Berlin, which was what you'd do if you sucked to bad to work Paris. Could be a real Casper Van Dien in Starship Troopers type thing.
ok next question. if bradley cooper directs a cabaret movie sometime soon will that be bad or good news to you
I'm not Phil but I was saying this morning that Gaga would be a good Sally Bowles but then I realized Joker 2 is unintentionally aping the "scary clown aesthetic" of this new Cabaret
i think maestro cabaret (mendes version the movie) can and should still be made with bradley as emcee and stefani as sally even if she is 45 and he is 55. it's my two cents.
Eddie Redmayne is like 46 so
my like dream casting for sally is saoirse, perhaps opposite one or several of the pale boys i love. i don't hate the idea of stefani as sally but i just wanted to chime in...
Saorise Sally Jack Lowden MC....
cillian as mc might work ...
Tell me something, girl!
Are you happy in this Weimar world?
Or do you need more?
Ist der ein juden that your searching for?
I think he could do it, if only because I know he'd read like ten thousand pages worth of books and research on Weimar Germany, which I think is essential to this text. I'm in an argument on reddit rn (embarrassing) about the new version, where a lot of people seem to think Weimar Berlin was a cool, queer, progressive place to be prior to the Nazis taking power, which is... JBOL, read a book!
Do we think Cooper is casting himself as the MC? And do we think that will work?
see above response to fran (yes)
Getting my copy of Titus Groan immediately and putting it out there: the secret is that all Oklahoma!s are sexy! it is a sexy musical.
To your point, I will say that seeing the rival, wealthier middle school put on Oklahoma! when I was in eighth grade did lead to several crushes that did not end well for me...
Can’t wait to figure out what Dr Alfred Prunesquallor’s deal is!!
THIS
I bought Mervyn's trilogy on Kindle for $15. It was a better deal than just buying the first book.
omg yay <3 I will read the others with you
My mom and I are SO excited for titus as you know!! So excited we didn't use the affiliate link oops sorry.
Also take a shot every time phil says "Liza Minnelli"