specifically here to endorse the "just put on the classical music station and stop stressing about not having 'taste'" method, which I did pick up from Fran Magazine™ and changed my life substantially for the better last year.
Berlioz is on my list of composers to read a biography of, since my flautist sister-in-law described him as "a neurotic little ginger." Also for anyone in Philly: Symphonie Fantastique will be at the Orchestra in November!
I often confuse Berlioz and Bizet, both perpetual French weirdos, significantly ahead of the curve of their more self-serious peers (Debussy, Saint-Saens) and both of whom composed some of my all time favorite popular music! let me know if you find a good one... I am in the market for a new composer biography this fall
My "romanticism" professor in college said that in Marche au Supplice the percussion is meant to evoke a guillotined head bouncing around. Keep that.. uh.. in mind when listening to it.
I have a theory (really an unfounded inference) that the composers who were committed and serious instrumentalists/performers tend to be more formalist. This is probably inescapable - those composers spent so much time internalizing the repertoire.
Chopin most exemplifies this. While has some romantic aspects - ultimate virtuoso, certainly a romantic nationalist, wide dynamic range - his compositions are very adherent to form. Sadly we will never know what his rubato really sounded like, nor his improvisational brilliance (sadly lost across all classical performance) - but we have what he wrote.
The keyboard maniacs seem to all be like this - Brahms, Mendelssohn, Clara (when she allowed herself to compose). Even Liszt invented new forms and adhered to them. His programmatic music is rigorously and intentionally structured. Perhaps they exploited form while remaining committed to its importance. Liszt was very religious - maybe he believed in some concept of "divine structure".
Those who were primarily theorists, orchestrators, conductors (I would say Bruckner, Mahler, Berlioz - tho Bruckner and Mahler were trained and accomplished instrumentalists) are more interested in probing the range of what can be expressed with an orchestra.
I am just a musician tho, not a musicologist. I don't know all that much.
I DO know that Berlioz was a guitarist and if anyone is wondering, yes guitarists have always been like this.
This is such great insight, especially into the "keyboard maniacs." I was recently at a concert where they played both Brahms and then R. Schumann which felt like a missed opportunity to get Clara in there too... they were sort of the OG Challengers from Challengers when you really think about it. I feel like Mendelssohn always kind of straddled the line to me - some of his work feels SO romantic, and then there's form work in the piano of it all. IDK, the Italian is so... THEMED!
I also always think of a joke from Good Omens where they say that Liszt is the only composer who is in Heaven, which feels right.
When I mix up Berlioz and Bizet in my head, it's mostly that I always think that Berlioz died really young, like in his 30s - but it's really just that I think Berlioz's compositions sound like a guy who was 30 his whole life.
fran, curious minds (mine) are wondering: do you ever dabble in contemporary composers? your arvo parts, your steve reichs, your pendereckis, your iannis xenakises, etc.? symphonie fantastique, shostakovich's 10th, and verdi's requiem for whatever reason are the pieces that led me down more unusual, bombastic 20th cent. classical paths back in high school, and they're who i still revisit most often. wondering if you ever play around there!
this is a great question... I dabble a little but consider myself still something of a student when it comes to more contemporary composers - I love Reich, John Adams, I consider myself very newly into Arvo Part. I like the crop of elder millennial/younger gen x guys too: Timo Andres, Chris Cerrone, Nico Muhly (<3 his work for the Howards End BBC is so yay), obv Caroline Shaw. These are interests that sprung up in the years since I moved east - just because it's so much easier to see contemporary pieces/premieres, even, here in rather than in the midwest. I love to play there but still feel very new in town!!!
muhly <3 <3 indeed. i'm teaching a student right now who's really into arvo part (?? idk) and they keep bringing me these wackadoo pieces that really make me swoon. i won't balk at a crazy philip glass suite either... thank you!
I tend to be the more of the contemporary nut in the household, but I tend towards all the really dreadful stuff, Góreckis and Stockhausens and Youngs. I got into Classical music backwards, through Reich’s works for reel-to-reel and Halim El-Dabh. Even now most of the “classic” classical composers I like tend to have made it into at least the start of the 20th century. Beyond that, most of my favorite composers were early musicians, Von Bingen and de Mauchat. Living with Fran has been great because she has really helped me to close that 800 year gap in my resume.
specifically here to endorse the "just put on the classical music station and stop stressing about not having 'taste'" method, which I did pick up from Fran Magazine™ and changed my life substantially for the better last year.
Berlioz is on my list of composers to read a biography of, since my flautist sister-in-law described him as "a neurotic little ginger." Also for anyone in Philly: Symphonie Fantastique will be at the Orchestra in November!
omg yes amazing... run don't walk to Philly!!
I often confuse Berlioz and Bizet, both perpetual French weirdos, significantly ahead of the curve of their more self-serious peers (Debussy, Saint-Saens) and both of whom composed some of my all time favorite popular music! let me know if you find a good one... I am in the market for a new composer biography this fall
rly dying at "lot of god stuff" in the cloisters
say what you will about the cloisters, but god is THERE
My "romanticism" professor in college said that in Marche au Supplice the percussion is meant to evoke a guillotined head bouncing around. Keep that.. uh.. in mind when listening to it.
I have a theory (really an unfounded inference) that the composers who were committed and serious instrumentalists/performers tend to be more formalist. This is probably inescapable - those composers spent so much time internalizing the repertoire.
Chopin most exemplifies this. While has some romantic aspects - ultimate virtuoso, certainly a romantic nationalist, wide dynamic range - his compositions are very adherent to form. Sadly we will never know what his rubato really sounded like, nor his improvisational brilliance (sadly lost across all classical performance) - but we have what he wrote.
The keyboard maniacs seem to all be like this - Brahms, Mendelssohn, Clara (when she allowed herself to compose). Even Liszt invented new forms and adhered to them. His programmatic music is rigorously and intentionally structured. Perhaps they exploited form while remaining committed to its importance. Liszt was very religious - maybe he believed in some concept of "divine structure".
Those who were primarily theorists, orchestrators, conductors (I would say Bruckner, Mahler, Berlioz - tho Bruckner and Mahler were trained and accomplished instrumentalists) are more interested in probing the range of what can be expressed with an orchestra.
I am just a musician tho, not a musicologist. I don't know all that much.
I DO know that Berlioz was a guitarist and if anyone is wondering, yes guitarists have always been like this.
no one: Does this need to be louder?
berlioz, a guitarist: Of course.
This is such great insight, especially into the "keyboard maniacs." I was recently at a concert where they played both Brahms and then R. Schumann which felt like a missed opportunity to get Clara in there too... they were sort of the OG Challengers from Challengers when you really think about it. I feel like Mendelssohn always kind of straddled the line to me - some of his work feels SO romantic, and then there's form work in the piano of it all. IDK, the Italian is so... THEMED!
I also always think of a joke from Good Omens where they say that Liszt is the only composer who is in Heaven, which feels right.
When I mix up Berlioz and Bizet in my head, it's mostly that I always think that Berlioz died really young, like in his 30s - but it's really just that I think Berlioz's compositions sound like a guy who was 30 his whole life.
i have never yearned. but i do think josh o'connor would like me 2️⃣6️⃣
this
fran, curious minds (mine) are wondering: do you ever dabble in contemporary composers? your arvo parts, your steve reichs, your pendereckis, your iannis xenakises, etc.? symphonie fantastique, shostakovich's 10th, and verdi's requiem for whatever reason are the pieces that led me down more unusual, bombastic 20th cent. classical paths back in high school, and they're who i still revisit most often. wondering if you ever play around there!
this is a great question... I dabble a little but consider myself still something of a student when it comes to more contemporary composers - I love Reich, John Adams, I consider myself very newly into Arvo Part. I like the crop of elder millennial/younger gen x guys too: Timo Andres, Chris Cerrone, Nico Muhly (<3 his work for the Howards End BBC is so yay), obv Caroline Shaw. These are interests that sprung up in the years since I moved east - just because it's so much easier to see contemporary pieces/premieres, even, here in rather than in the midwest. I love to play there but still feel very new in town!!!
muhly <3 <3 indeed. i'm teaching a student right now who's really into arvo part (?? idk) and they keep bringing me these wackadoo pieces that really make me swoon. i won't balk at a crazy philip glass suite either... thank you!
I tend to be the more of the contemporary nut in the household, but I tend towards all the really dreadful stuff, Góreckis and Stockhausens and Youngs. I got into Classical music backwards, through Reich’s works for reel-to-reel and Halim El-Dabh. Even now most of the “classic” classical composers I like tend to have made it into at least the start of the 20th century. Beyond that, most of my favorite composers were early musicians, Von Bingen and de Mauchat. Living with Fran has been great because she has really helped me to close that 800 year gap in my resume.
taking notes! thank you!!
i would consider myself a formalist AND the romantics are my favorite composers (tchaikovsky and beethoven, mainly), hope that's ok...
"There’s an archness, as though Berlioz himself knows this music is hacky and bad, but he can’t deny himself the pleasures of the waltz form."
Fine, I'll say it. This is also why I enjoyed Unfrosted so much.