half read to avoid spoilers because now i'm behind. but i guess i really don't care about "brothers" which is why this book is slipping in ranking by the page. more on this tomorrow ig... but as much as i love learning about ivan as a distant character i understand both the brothers perspectives and familial relationships are so intractable and everyone is either so young or hopeless it all feels very rote in a way that's becoming grating. and it doesn't help that half the sex/romance stuff is with "naomi" and "sylvia" who are NOT characters--i have never g less of a f
I’m wondering the extent to which is this novel where she’s trying to break out of marriage plot which is why it’s so clunky, like I think even she’s kinda over it with the romance
This made me interested in checking out Intermezzo! The comparison reminds me of Zadie Smith's 2005 novel On Beauty, a much more overt remake of Howard's End--I guess it's one of those novels that every generation wants its own version of.
We read On Beauty in context of Howards End when I was in grad school — which seems to take some of the more capitalist/relationship critique angle than focusing on the siblings, IIRC… it’s probably my least favorites of the Smiths I’ve read but a fascinating exercising in writing to and around a text,
She is definitely ruthlessly millennial (many such cases...) and I think the one Gen Z character here Naomi is mostly just always sitting on the couch in leggings eating chips which feels... well, lol. I think I've come to appreciate her work a lot more as I've reckoned with the fact that despite her popularity, like, a lot of people don't like what she's doing and she's a much more niche interest/stylist than given credit for. Like she's not a populist writer by any means.
so true as a 22 year old, all my gen z ass knows is wear leggings eat chip be bisexual and complain about the state of the world thank u so much ms rooney
Does it make any sense at all that Ivan (autistic-coded, chess prodigy, virgin at 22, so principled in his environmentalism that he won't fly or buy new clothing) engages in BLATANT raw-dogging with 36-year-old Margaret, who is clearly not dumb?
Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. In conversation with Margaret before they have sex for the first time Ivan both affirms that he's not a virgin and uses a condom. I guess to me it's implied they continue to do so, to save us the time and pages in repetitive condom maintenance, but beyond that it doesn't strike me as abnormal otherwise -- maybe she has an IUD, it doesn't seem like either of them are seeking out other partners, etc. I don't think having unprotected sex really has much to do with principles here or in general.
I read that part last night. They used a condom the first time but at some point they give that up. I can assure you that the dog is 100% raw.
It's a whole big Thing that Ivan goes kablooey before evacuating the premises. He apologizes; he wasn't supposed to. Margaret tells him it's OK, she'll go to the chemist to get the morning-after pill (so no IUD). Except she'll have to drive to the next county, in case someone in their small town sees her and word gets around.
Someone who won't even buy first-hand clothes or travel by air for environmental reasons probably has thoughts about overpopulation, reckless procreation. They're not totally disconnected.
If anything the scene backs up Peter's suspicion (I think he says it during their dinner gone bad) that Margaret might be looking to get pregnant.
right right — I forgot that morning after thing with Margaret. still, I think the appeal of Rooney’s work is trying to square a modern sensibility towards sex (I won’t spoil, but the end of the love triangle comes to mind here) with a personal politic, and that these things are sometimes in conflict. that said, we don’t know that Ivan has any thoughts about overpopulation, an argument that would teeter on a kind of restricted fascism. as far as we know, Ivan is principled, not that he’s abandoning them. much of his arc focuses on his comfort with otherwise new situations, ones he might have otherwise previously disagreed with but otherwise can’t be bothered to consider. that, or these characters most likely just think this is fine and/or cool and/or immaterial
someone who is as woke as ivan probably thinks abortions are fine should anything go awry. i don’t think anyone on the earth’s first thought about this scenario would be pregnancy unless you have never had unprotected sex or any sex at all
half read to avoid spoilers because now i'm behind. but i guess i really don't care about "brothers" which is why this book is slipping in ranking by the page. more on this tomorrow ig... but as much as i love learning about ivan as a distant character i understand both the brothers perspectives and familial relationships are so intractable and everyone is either so young or hopeless it all feels very rote in a way that's becoming grating. and it doesn't help that half the sex/romance stuff is with "naomi" and "sylvia" who are NOT characters--i have never g less of a f
I’m wondering the extent to which is this novel where she’s trying to break out of marriage plot which is why it’s so clunky, like I think even she’s kinda over it with the romance
i'm worried she thinks growing out of romance makes her more ideologically or formally serious
This made me interested in checking out Intermezzo! The comparison reminds me of Zadie Smith's 2005 novel On Beauty, a much more overt remake of Howard's End--I guess it's one of those novels that every generation wants its own version of.
We read On Beauty in context of Howards End when I was in grad school — which seems to take some of the more capitalist/relationship critique angle than focusing on the siblings, IIRC… it’s probably my least favorites of the Smiths I’ve read but a fascinating exercising in writing to and around a text,
Me scrutinizing the synopsis for Ulysses influences "Hmm. I'll be the judge of that."
i think i am a bit too young for rooney to work for me. she gives me the ick. i am glad she works for so many other people tho😭
She is definitely ruthlessly millennial (many such cases...) and I think the one Gen Z character here Naomi is mostly just always sitting on the couch in leggings eating chips which feels... well, lol. I think I've come to appreciate her work a lot more as I've reckoned with the fact that despite her popularity, like, a lot of people don't like what she's doing and she's a much more niche interest/stylist than given credit for. Like she's not a populist writer by any means.
so true as a 22 year old, all my gen z ass knows is wear leggings eat chip be bisexual and complain about the state of the world thank u so much ms rooney
can’t believe i didnt think of this…
there's only one Fran Magazine...
Does it make any sense at all that Ivan (autistic-coded, chess prodigy, virgin at 22, so principled in his environmentalism that he won't fly or buy new clothing) engages in BLATANT raw-dogging with 36-year-old Margaret, who is clearly not dumb?
I can't get over this.
Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. In conversation with Margaret before they have sex for the first time Ivan both affirms that he's not a virgin and uses a condom. I guess to me it's implied they continue to do so, to save us the time and pages in repetitive condom maintenance, but beyond that it doesn't strike me as abnormal otherwise -- maybe she has an IUD, it doesn't seem like either of them are seeking out other partners, etc. I don't think having unprotected sex really has much to do with principles here or in general.
Maybe Bugs should read an Emily Henry? She engages in this repetitive condom maintenance.
Just use a new one! Care and maintenance of the same old condom is a waste of time.
I read that part last night. They used a condom the first time but at some point they give that up. I can assure you that the dog is 100% raw.
It's a whole big Thing that Ivan goes kablooey before evacuating the premises. He apologizes; he wasn't supposed to. Margaret tells him it's OK, she'll go to the chemist to get the morning-after pill (so no IUD). Except she'll have to drive to the next county, in case someone in their small town sees her and word gets around.
Someone who won't even buy first-hand clothes or travel by air for environmental reasons probably has thoughts about overpopulation, reckless procreation. They're not totally disconnected.
If anything the scene backs up Peter's suspicion (I think he says it during their dinner gone bad) that Margaret might be looking to get pregnant.
right right — I forgot that morning after thing with Margaret. still, I think the appeal of Rooney’s work is trying to square a modern sensibility towards sex (I won’t spoil, but the end of the love triangle comes to mind here) with a personal politic, and that these things are sometimes in conflict. that said, we don’t know that Ivan has any thoughts about overpopulation, an argument that would teeter on a kind of restricted fascism. as far as we know, Ivan is principled, not that he’s abandoning them. much of his arc focuses on his comfort with otherwise new situations, ones he might have otherwise previously disagreed with but otherwise can’t be bothered to consider. that, or these characters most likely just think this is fine and/or cool and/or immaterial
someone who is as woke as ivan probably thinks abortions are fine should anything go awry. i don’t think anyone on the earth’s first thought about this scenario would be pregnancy unless you have never had unprotected sex or any sex at all